Strangers, An Offering to the LORD

What is an offering that would please the LORD?  Malachi 3:8-10,

"Will a man rob God?
Yet you have robbed Me!
But you say,
‘In what way have we robbed You?’
In tithes and offerings.
You are cursed with a curse,
For you have robbed Me,
Even this whole nation.
Bring all the tithes into the storehouse,
That there may be food in My house,
And try Me now in this,”
Says the Lord of hosts,
“If I will not open for you the windows of heaven
And pour out for you such blessing
That there will not be room enough to receive it."

Does God want an offering of your money? Sometimes. I suppose if it has the power to bring the nations to Christ, then yes. But on the other hand sometimes God likes to accomplish things without our resources, so we can see the difference between our effort and God's power; so He can increase His own fame.

Simon trying to buy the Spirit he already had as a believer, Acts 8

The prophetic book of Isaiah ends with an interesting take on offerings made to God.  It describes STRANGERS as the offering God is seeking. Isaiah 66:18-21,

"For I know their works and their thoughts. It shall be that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come and see my glory. I will set a sign among them; and those among them who escape I will send to the nations: to Tarshish ad Pul and Lud, who draw the bow, and Tubal and Javan, to the coastlands afar off who have not heard My fame nor seen My glory. And they shall declare My glory among the Gentiles. Then they shall bring all your brethren for an offering to the LORD out of all nations, on horses and in chariots and in litters, on mules and on camels, to My holy mountain Jerusalem," says the LORD, "as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD. And I will also take some of them for priests and Levites," says the LORD.

While some of the evangelism described here makes us think these verses are fulfilled in the church age (now), all brothers from all nations have not been brought to Jerusalem (being referred to as the holy mountain which speaks of the future dispensation).

If the age of the 1000 year reign of Christ is characterized by this, shouldn't our Spiritual duty today look the same?   From the beginning of the promise uttered to Abraham, God has been patiently seeking the redemption and transformation of unchurched people!  The excellence... of the power of God on display in lives being changed.  What if that is what He will have His servants offer Him?

And if in the Kingdom era there will be literal pilgrimages to Jerusalem of new believers in Jesus, shouldn't that be fulfilled now in a Spiritual sense?  Malachi 1:7-8,

"You offer defiled food on My altar,
But say,
‘In what way have we defiled You?’
By saying,
‘The table of the Lord is contemptible.’
And when you offer the blind as a sacrifice,
Is it not evil?
And when you offer the lame and sick,
Is it not evil?"

If this is true, ...  Then what, do you think possibly...

Lame  = ?

Sick = ?

Blind = ?

Disciple Making Means the Unchurched will Follow Him

We quote God's Word in the Great Commission (Matthew 28:16-20) a lot, but what does a discipling movement look like? The word "disciple" means "follower, learner".  Disciple-making therefore means making disciples of the unchurched. Wait a second, you might say: I make disciples of the people who already attend church!  Isn't that also disciplemaking?  Well, of substance yes, but let me explain a little further.

By definition, a disciple is someone who is willing to follow Jesus. Once someone is willing to follow, then your engagement in making a disciple is done.  The disciple is made - and a certain amount of maintenance remains.  We might differentiate disciple-maintaining from disciple-making.

Help me tell the story of Jesus....  Jesus saw the crowds following Him, picked out 12 to be His first missionaries... and then: did He send them to minister to the crowds already following Him on foot?  

Is that how the story goes??  No :)  On two occasions (prior to Pentecost) Jesus gave the 12 the power to speak and do as He did.  Who were they sent to?  They were empowered to reach the nearby villages where people had not heard the good news so they could be given the chance to follow Jesus too.

The Necessary Work of "Disciple-Maintenance" (Shepherding)

"Disciples" are the willing.  They showed up.  How about at church?  Who shows up at church, usually?  Isn't it the willing?  Those who have chosen in some motivation to follow Christ?

Jesus didn't concern Himself with developing the 12 missionaries' Christianity very far at all before He anointed them to successfully make followers of the LORD. They weren't intelligent, they weren't professionals.  It's not necessary for a "movement."  We all want Christians to have character, granted; and they will by God's grace.

God has a plan in disciple-maintenance, and maybe that is your passion to serve Him.  What I mean by "disciple-maintenance" is the giftings of Shepherd and Teacher.  In His concern for sin, Jesus said, "You follow me because I fed you the bread."  He continually ministers to develop godly character. This is the sanctification process and we're all working on becoming who He has destined us to be.  We come together as a Body to refresh and strengthen our willingness to follow, to learn.

There is a small percentage of followers that aren't what they seem.  But even that God has under control.  On occasion, disciple-maintenance leads us down a road of departure.  Followers "work themselves out."  1 John 2:19,

They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

His Power is in Disciple-Making Movements

How big is the testimony of God in the world if we only offer up the incremental faith of the already faithful? Compare the faith of Paul from the writings of 1 Timothy to 2nd Timothy - can you see his faith grow between writing these two books?  Probably not, I'd guess.  By contrast, can you tell the difference between Saul the persecutor of Christians, and Paul the convert of Jesus?  Absolutely!  Conversion is His renown!  Isaiah 61:5,6,9,

Strangers shall stand and feed your flocks,
And the sons of the foreigner
Shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers....
You shall eat the riches of the Gentiles,
And in their glory you shall boast....
All who see them shall acknowledge them,
That they are the posterity whom the LORD has blessed. 

Would our God be more awe-inspiring, and be more glorious if we could bring the unchurched, the un-gathered, the non-following?   Saved... from the grip of hell on earth, transformed like nobody's business?  Can you remember the last time you heard the story of someone who just accepted Jesus as Savior?  What happened to your soul?  The newly converted remind us of what is important.  I love to hear how touching it is for a person to finally meet God in all His love for them.  How "lame" in transformation are wonderfully but predictably faithful Christians compared to a babe in Christ?  Malachi 1:12-13,

"You also say,
‘Oh, what a weariness!’
And you sneer at it,”
Says the Lord of hosts.
“And you bring the stolen, the lame, and the sick;
Thus you bring an offering!
Should I accept this from your hand?”
Says the Lord."

Stolen = Researchers have been reporting that most church growth statistics come from transfers from other congregations of people who are already Christians...?

What if the most beautiful offering in God's eyes is the testimony of His presence in a stranger's life?  What if He loves to hear a new people overwhelmed to discover God as alive, as powerful, as near, as protective, as saving, as gracious.

It can't be bought with money.

Can you give it to Him?

Hungry for Mission

a post originally written on 11/11/12.

"Jesus answered and said to her, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water."  John 4:10

Jesus is hungry.  Jesus is also thirsty.  Jesus "must needs go through Samaria."  What does the God of the universe need that He does not already have?  The redemption of man in these three years of His life.  His mission: to come and reconcile us.  He needs his bride.  If He does not find His bride, His purpose is failed.  Without a Bride,  Jesus doesn't drink.  Jesus doesn't eat.  When Jesus was low on sustenance, he goes on a mission trip.

No he wasn't talking about earthly food.  His followers think this means earthly food.  They look around a place like Samaria and think, "If we are going to eat in this place, it will have to be brought in from somewhere else."  They take off to get the food, meanwhile Jesus sits down to the feast.

Jesus needs to succeed at His mission to win us.  But if we should not comply and let ourselves be won over by Him, then He has failed.  In that sense, Jesus is thirsty and hopes that His people will give Him a drink.

There is no spiritual food and there is no spiritual drink without a mission trip.  The water is meant to irrigate my sphere of influence and spill out like a flowing moving body of water (streams of living water will flow out from within).  The irrigated area of my sphere of influence is supposed to bear fruit.

So I thought that God was supposed to make the water flow from within me?  But in fact I find that I want most to have God flow His life-giving water out through my life when I come across a person who doesn't know Him at all.  That is why Jesus is thirsty to be around the Samaritan woman.

Why would anyone rob Jesus, mission?  Why would anyone rob Jesus water and food?

"You will ask, 'When did we give you a drink?  When did we feed you?'  I will answer, 'Whoever does this to the least of my brethren, He does it unto Me.'"

Why do I rob Him drink and food?  I get busy and caught up with the finer things in life, such as writing blog posts.

We think that it's hard.  We think that it's hard to find success as a missionary because it's hard in the places we want to win people.  But, it's not.  It really isn't.  That is what Jesus is telling us here.  The disciples look around Samaria and think there is no way to barter for food.  They're totally wrong.  "Do you not say, 'There are still four months and then comes the harvest?  Behold, I say to you, lift up your eyes and look at the fields, for they are already white for harvest!" If we are willing to get out of our earthly families as Jesus left His, reaping the harvest is unbelievably easy.  It is already ready!  All we have to do is drink, like Jesus is drinking.  Drink the water of mission.  We can make our prayers about mission.  Ask and He will pour water through you to others.

-PUSH-

the gospel

neighbors

parents

children

husband

children's ministries

extended family

church cohorts

long distance friends

internet buddies

Birthright acquaintances

grocery checker

homeless man

overstressed mom

wayward sister

PUSH

me + Jesus

There are things I want to do with my life. The gospel kindles a fire in my bosom and it makes me want to leave my nets behind and follow Him on some wild and amazing adventure. Why doesn't everyone desire to find their purpose in the gospel as much as I? They slow me down like a child who has wrapped his body around my leg while I try to walk. Sometimes I feel like looking down at the metaphorical child to declare, "Go away!" Don't they recognize that I am set on ascending?

Jesus was someone who was known for getting "underneath." He lifted others up so that they were hoisted toward God's light and love. Luke 22:25-28 -

And He said to them, “The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them, and those who exercise authority over them are called ‘benefactors.’ But not so among you; on the contrary, he who is greatest among you, let him be as the younger, and he who governs as he who serves. For who is greater, he who sits at the table, or he who serves? Is it not he who sits at the table? Yet I am among you as the One who serves."

I might do as Jesus has. The good news is living and demonstrating its worth because I permit a carry-on. These are someone(s) who just do not understand God's wonderful grace. They come in between me and another measure of closeness I might gain to fulfill my dreams in Christ. As long as I keep a keen eye on the light of the gospel, all the re-positioning and pushing is not as burdensome as it looks. The gospel fuels passion in the heaving, sufficiently. Ha! God's goodness is powerful enough not only to lift me but many people at once!

I know I'm going to get there just the same because His light does not lie. In fact it is probably God's will that I would be made fit for service to the gospel later on by learning this lesson now. "Hold on tight; you're coming with me."

I'll get there one day... but not without my brother.

A new door for the gospel

God has been impressing me with a burden to share Christ with the neighbors just out of my usual reach. You know I'd like to hang out with people "above me" who feed me, who equip me according to the Word of God but in the last several months I feel His admonishment to know that if this is all I've become, I forsake these precious children I see every day from the opportunity of moving from death to life.

The key that I believe God wants to use to unlock this door is my neighbor who is now coming with me to church since December. She knows them all well. Transients, addicted to alcohol, even drug dealers. It doesn't bother me, bring it on, right? She is one of them as far as they are concerned, and that means everything I think for the sake of transmission of the truth. She is truly a delight in my life. I get the opportunity to sit back and watch God just go to town. I'm not doing anything much at all! This lady is drawing new boundary lines in her life, she is desperate to be in God's house and to learn and meditate on the Word of God at all times. I take her to church for nearly all of my own things and she will raise her hand and give a testimony right in the middle of the sunday evening service when it isn't "the right time." To my shame I get a little red in the face at the moment. But she doesn't know what church protocol is, all she knows is, God is revealing Himself and His glory in her heart. She wants to share it.

I trepidly mentioned to her that I want to do a bible study for them, but that I would do it without her if she didn't feel the same way. But she does. She is excited about it. It's pretty obvious to both of us though that this cannot be "a bible study" or they won't come. Okay. So now we're brainstorming. We've been brainstorming the "how" to get them, for two or three weeks. I don't want to stay in this stage, I want to get an idea going and then do it. Satan wants to put it off. So I'm writing this blog post hoping that it'll kick me in gear as my class winds up this Saturday. Perhaps readers have some ideas, and that would be glorious!

So, both of us have two ideas. Mine is, we should just throw a party with no motive. Host them with food and quality time. This is what Jesus did in Matthew's house - he had a party. She thoroughly agrees.

Her idea is, that we should study the book of Revelation. She says she has talked to them and they find the topic of end-times interesting. In fact it was through the Lahaye books that she started realizing how important it was to get her relationship with Christ back in the right place. I have doubts about this. I certainly can't teach it.

Now I would greatly prefer to read the Gospel of John. I think it could get really messy and irrelevant to talk about the end times. On the other hand, just a little interest, combined with love, might make many ask to know the gospel. I am aware that even opening a Bible and having someone read from it can be Spiritually impacting.

I want this neighbor of mine to lead the study. I realize how little biblical knowledge she has, but somehow I do feel that this is God's will. And I will be there too to help make any corrections if they are necessary, at least this is how little I wish to interfere according to my own plans.

I've been praying that God will prepare my heart. This means I gotta get really lowly. Gonna get a little dirty, with life that is. Usually I can span the gap okay, and put aside chipper-Christian girl for a few hours on Fridays because who wants to see my bright shiny life when you realize you're pregnant and your life is falling apart? - and so on. This time I want something really authentic in this lowliness. Where I truly can't see myself as being any better off than they, as if I am one of them, without the sin of course. So I have invited the LORD to humble me.

LORD, humble me. But please, be gentle. Don't leave me, okay?

I love this song.

"We Are Going After The Lost"

"If you call me and I come to Oregon, we are going after the lost."

Wake up!

-- Pastor-elect for Salem First Baptist Church



How can I bear this happiness? The LORD has answered your prayers, and, mine. This man sees the lost of this world, like I do! Here is a paraphrase of the things Pastor Mark said, along with my responses interjected to each thought.

He said that we can't just keep doing church for our own pleasure. It isn't enough to have expository preaching in the pulpit; if that's all we have our doors will still close. We need to get to know the culture and speak the language of the lost around us. Praise God! This church could be on its last generation, unless we're willing to be a little uncomfortable and change our priorities. What does it take to make a church grow, you ask? Babies. Babies. They're not all that great. You have to change diapers, you have to watch tv shows that they want to watch.... When you got married you once had a lot of freedom to do the kinds of things you like to do. But once you committed yourself to the responsibility of being a parent, you gave up a lot of freedom so that you could do things with the children. It's the same with the church.

The kinds of people coming to faith in Christ, today, are not the same kinds of people that came to Christ a generation ago. The people of today receiving salvation, are broken. Broken, like you don't want to know all the things they've been through in their life. We expect that when they accept Christ their lifestyle will shortly turn around, but that's just not practical many times. They might go on having multiple abortions, or sleeping with every guy that comes their way.

Praise God for this message!! Thank you!!

Discipleship today is labor-intensive. These new Christians need help all the time. Expect to get a phone call at 3 AM, or four calls in one day as they face their temptations and need encouragement to not stray. How can we expect them to be put together? She can't act like a mature woman because she has no idea what that looks like. Men have no idea what it means to be a father. They will slowly learn it by prayer and patience and faith in God.

Wake up! Wake up! God has been listening and He is ready to bless you and I. He was listening all along, wasn't He?

The pastor-elect said the culture of today is marked by some clear trends:

1 -- they resent and are suspicious of authority

2 -- they don't believe in absolute truth

So just using scripture is not going to win them.

Praise God for this message!

On average it takes about six months of someone coming to church, hearing about Jesus and experiencing love in relationships, before they will --believe-- and receive the gospel. In fact there is a church in Ogden, Utah where the LDS people are coming. For them, give it an additional two months - eight months on average - of them attending. NOT being called out. Not being noticed, or preached to. Just being there and experiencing it, is how they will be prepared to put their faith in Jesus.

Praise God! Wake up, wake up, God is coming near to the broken hearted, the downtrodden, the forsaken. I love you LORD, for doing this in my sight, in the days of MY life!!

He said it isn't enough to win people by having a friendly church. Friendly churches? They're a dime-a-dozen. What the world is hungry for, is a true friend. There is a difference between being friends and being friendly; a world of difference.

What do you do to save the prostitutes in the inner city? You go out there and you go get 'em. You don't need a build a program; you, go!

Yes, Oh, LORD! Send me, with your grace! I believe in You in this way.

Recalibrating Myself

What have I been trying to say, I don't know?!? but this person, he just said it for me. He is my advocate. I went up and I told him; I said to him, "You? You are my advocate. You said everything that is important to me. Thank you."

All the people in my world? Family. Neighbors. Other religions. Even "carnal" evangelicals. This is what I've been trying to say all along. Free grace theology read Galatians and Romans to me in the way I needed verification. The gospel should be presented as a true gift of God through faith alone.  That was the biggest thing, till now - this is bigger. Why?

Because I think I would rather live my life without being understood or alone according to truth, before, before I would let my church be comfortable turning away from the people I long to see know Christ. I would rather forsake the satisfaction of enjoying my own kind, from even affiliating myself as evangelical, before I would promote another moment of pain and disillusion for those kinds of people who only need a little more effort than what we think they're worth. Too those in the church have frequently dismissed that suggestion for being radical. We, evangelical Christianity and I, we were at odds with each other.

I don't want to choose, God, I always have thought to myself. If I have to choose between those whom You love and the ones who I feel comfortable around, I'll spend the rest of my days with the lost, no regrets.

Doctrine such as the gospel affects who? Mostly it affects me. But everyday I face a world that needs Christ. This is why I felt so little familiarity with evangelical Christianity for this long. Because my friends, my family, my neighbors were alienated by this old (scripture only/first) method of discipleship. And I didn't even have the words to say this, until this week.

Now I know. I will stand up, ready to serve, and bear the infallible scriptures with pride, but now with sanctioned temperance.  It is finally best to share the gospel while expending equal effort toward love and presence.  The Spirit wants to engage hearts, whole persons, whole lives.

LORD, you have found me and knitted me back into the fold!

The Culture of Religion: I Was Wrong

In the last post I was arrogant. I was a hypocrite too. I asked you to think about a new method but I asked it in a way that was not encouraging, patient, or most importantly, attempting to understand you at all.

It all went wrong when I assumed my beliefs were obviously correct. Honestly, I felt frustrated. I wondered, why would anyone not have thought of the things I have, or why would anyone do them differently?

That's really a good question to ask.



The story of Jimi and his evangelists in a small town in Utah show us that there is such a thing as religious culture. It is the normative way of thinking and dealing with religious issues. Every group has a different culture, or, ideological arrangement of dos and don'ts, and values and ethics, which they derive from scripture and lay upon scripture. The word of God is the inerrant truth. Most evangelicals believe this to be true. Next we could ask: What are our distinctives? Which scriptures do we put in which order of significance when it comes to social interaction?

Let's assume that instead of doing what I did, I took into consideration the culture of the groups I speak of. How would it have been different?

First of all, I never bothered to ask those for whom I wanted to share my idea, what their ideal is, and how they are trying to attain it by their choices.

Second, what passages are they looking at? Have they read the passages I am concentrating on?

Third, everyone including believers has a specific "pattern in human activity." Sometimes I want to think "how can it be true that Christians can do or think anything differently? We all adhere to the authority of scripture. Therefore there is no such thing as different, only right and wrong."

That is true, though I need to remember not everybody has heard all the scriptures of some matter, before. Sometimes they hear one principle, and apply it, before another. One man's order might be different than mine.

Forth, people hear things in different ways. In the last post the townspeople understood service before testimony, and testimony before scripture. There are taboos--things you should avoid--for every group.

I wonder what the culture is for the people of Free Grace?

One thing I've noticed is that many teachers of Free Grace concepts have emphasized the importance of never assuming to know another man's thoughts. This comes from a historical appreciation of how some theologians after Calvin have expanded the teaching, claiming they knew his mind in a matter where he actually had not spoken. Whether or not this is an accurate portrayl of historical Calvinism, it remains pertinent as a rule of conduct for the group. One can get farther if they refrain from speaking on the behalf of another.

I don't know all the in's and out's yet. But it's my job to find them out, and then change my way of doing things.

I desperately want to be better than I have been in the past. When I notice myself shaking my head in disbelief at the other guy's way of thinking and acting, it is an alarm to me that there is a gap in culture which needs my primary attention. I asked my husband to help point out why I had that nagging, guilty feeling.

I personally need to work on trying to remember that Calvinists are doing the best they can to obey the scriptures as they are convicted by them. I apologize for pretending like this is obvious, because it isn't. I will try to bridge the space between us, and then maybe I might be able to show them what I believe. Who knows? They might have a little something to teach me.

Another Way: Respect

Here is a good definition of relational evangelism.

Here is a great article on maintaining the message of salvation in Christ while reaching and changing the minds of others.

Wouldn't it be great if everybody just listened to what we have to say? If you're one of those bible teachers who people just listen to everywhere he goes, that's something pretty neat. For the rest of us, reaching the point where a message can be carefully considered by its audience, requires that familiarity be established.

Maybe you once held the captive audience of others and have lost it. Maybe the reason why it was lost was your fault, or maybe it was a misunderstanding, or maybe it was their fault. Regardless, the trust can be, and must be, reestablished.

Jimi Pitts, a friend of mine who loves to present the gospel to Mormon people, has gone for several years to a big, famous annual pageant presented by the LDS church in the small Utah town of Manti. They would traditionally hand out tracts and talk to people gathered in the town for the event. The townsfolk did not take kindly to their presence, and one year they were not only harrassed and persecuted (as they'd been for several years running), but the police even handcuffed and arrested Jimi. It was plain the community felt threatened and outraged as these traditional Christians stuck to their practices and kept handing out the tracts--quite admirably, I must say. Of course, very few gave them a serious hearing.

The next year after these incidents, they tried something very different. The group was made aware of a poor single mother living in town, a Mormon lady with five children, who needed her house painted. In the group came with their brushes, rollers, tarps and paint that she got to pick out herself but the group paid for, as well as lots of hands and feet to do the job for her as a simple gift of love. Soon the word got out across the small Mormon community about what they'd done, and suddenly they were practically hailed as people who walked on water! Now it was as if they could do no wrong! Even though they continued to hand out tracts and talk to LDS passersby, they were now not only tolerated but in some cases even admired.

In the years to follow... the single mother became their friend, began to trust her kids to them for tending, and one of her daughters even, as Jimi reported, "got saved!" More than one county law enforcement officer later told Jimi with heartfelt apology, "We were wrong to do what we did to your group," and a good, open friendship has been formed with one of those officials in particular who is now open to their message.

[1]

This is an amazing example. This group has earned the right to carry around a persecution complex, because they truly were being treated unjustly by sharing their beliefs.... But they didn't do that. Instead, they were amazingly lowly and humble. They listened and obeyed the obvious requests by the town to stop offending them by that method.

So long as the town was being offended, nobody in it was listening to the message.

When the group changed their method, and respect and care was indeed received by the town, then various townspeople felt the freedom to be honest. Honest with the Word of God. Honest to confess their sins against, or in the presence of, the evangelists.

Which brings up another topic, on the sins belonging to those with whom we are sharing the message.

Is it a big deal when those whom we are sharing with, act poorly?

It shouldn't be, at least in my thinking.

First of all, which way is this ministry going, anyway?? -- Do I really believe they are ministering to me? Do I really believe in their message as true and something for me to receive? If so, then I should definitely care about the way in which they live their life as they hold their beliefs. But, I am afraid that this is merely my own excellent standard, my own conscious devotion to not hinder my message, that I innocently assign to them.

Second, should we be surprised that the deceived or the lost are having trouble treating us kindly? I mean, it would be nice, but....

If I am the one with the true message, then the ministry is from me to them, and, their poor example in my presence... is irrelevant.

Once again, the old Calvinist fruit-introspective tradition, lingers on. I want to nip that thing in the bud. It's like we're trying to prove to others they can't possibly be seen as righteous in Christ by faith, unless they are dragged through an endless assortment of any of 613 commandments.

In conclusion, unless you remain unconvinced that your ministry is true, I don't want to hear anything more about what the other guys are acting like. This is your ministry, not theirs.

I understand that it is truly unpleasant. And unfair. And a bad indication. And gross because at this point you and I are emotionally involved. I too went through a phase where I tried to get the other guy to clean up his act. I'll tell you: Perhaps I could get a man to clean up his act, but I might lose his soul. Which is more important? That he stop sinning, or that he believe the message? What will come out of my mouth?

With time I learned to pick up that cross, and bear it with the joy set before me in trusting God that He will help them to see. There is no freedom for them to confess and reconcile, if there is no grace being extended by me. In the relationship with our Heavenly Father, we can come boldly into the throneroom and stand and confess before the King. By that same Means we can do this with each other, too.

Sorry for the blatant condescending attitude on my part, above... That's not Christ-like of me. I feel like a mom who has been trying to keep her two kids from fighting over nonsense all day long... oh wait, I am and I did.... :)

These "sins" of the others oftentimes have a lot more to do with the culture of religion, which will be the next topic.


[1] I Love Mormons, by David L. Rowe, pp. 156-157. 2005, Baker Books.

The Traditional Method

I don't want to speak poorly of the traditional method of evangelism. I do think it is profitable. I think some of us are fortunate to have it work. When it works, those who listen to us submit to the teachings we share.

However there is, in my opinion, a growing need for evangelicals to utilize a new method (I will post on next) of evangelism, especially in a scripture-soaked society as America is.

I apologize, many of my sources and ideas are borrowed from LDS-specific issues; that's simply a reflection of where I have put in more effort to revolutionize the method. I think the ideas below are fully applicable as principles for all kinds of evangelism, though. It shouldn't be too difficult to draw them out as you read, I think.

I hope you notice, as you read below, that the author utilizes a less common methodology in how he is about to introduce a new perspective to you, as he shares the content of that message:

A Traditional Way: The Doctrinal "Warrior Saint"

By now I was getting familiar with this pattern of contact, "discussion," recoil, and shutdown, having been at it for about three years. And by this point, that stabbing feeling I got, joined like a Siamese twin to a feeling of despair, had started to intensify beyond what I considered tolerable. Frankly, though, I just did not know what else to do but shake it off, suit up with my spiritual armor, and ready myself for yet another spin at the same jousting game.

So, like most other Utah ministers with whom I compared notes, I took some refuge in putting the best face on it while proceeding full steam ahead, staying the course, making another charge. The best face we put on turned out to be some form of makeover that left us traditional Christian "warrior saints" loking pretty noble at the end of the day. After all, we were just faithfully and honestly "preaching the truth," right? We were simply called to proclaim the gospel and leave the results to God, amen? We were powerless to keep our Mormon friends from thinking we were somehow attacking them instead of their doctrine, weren't we? (Uh, by the way, we were their friends, right?) We couldn't help it if "the god of this world has blinded the minds of unbelievers" (2 Cor 4:4), could we? Ours was not to reason why but simply to keep on keeping on and suffering those battle wounds for the Lord. Wasn't all this the plain and simple truth of the matter?

Well, a lot was plain and simple back then, but not much of it was truthful. That one could enjoy friendship with Mormons and enjoy the title "Mormon Slayer" at the same time was patently disingenuous. Proceeding as if one could "bible bash" without raising defenses and coming across as attacking amounted to gross silliness as well as flat-out cluelessness about human communication. Acting like we who evangelized by trafficking in "what's wrong with Mormonism" and "evidence against Mormonism" were really "just preaching the truth" or "simply proclaiming the gospel" bordered on self-congratulatory delusionalism. To believe our proclamation style truly created no offense but "the offense of the cross" was an offense to the truth! Even if many we met were "blinded" by "the god of this world," it now seems to me that in order to help them we had to deal with a blindness of our own, a peculiar blindness to the sinewy, pulsating, dust-and-dreams, soulful reality of the Mormon people as first and most of all, people.

In those days I was just not ready to recognize, let alone deal with, the blindness in my home court--what Jesus would call "the beam" in my own eye, which was steadily growing from telephone pole to sequoia proportions. I was not ready to face its implications. Why did I do this confrontational, warrior-mode evangelism with LDS people? Yes, for one thing it was all I knew, all I'd seen by way of modeling, and the way I'd been trained by both formal and informal mentors. But it seems to me there was something else lurking in the depths and driving this approach, something we traditional Christians didn't like to think about, something called fear. Mormons and other religious groups threaten us, in part simply because they are "other" and perhaps odd--"not us." I'm not sure why this should scare us, but sometimes it does. We revert to fight-or-flight reflexes, quite unlike Jesus, who was secure in the love of the Father for all people so that he was able to embrace with uncanny comfort the whole range of humanity, including Romans, Samaritans, Pharisees, prostitutes, and lepers. We would do well to cultivate that kind of security in the love of God for all people.

[1]

Oh, I could tell stories of the sad things I have done with the Word of God to the LDS. The people at the forum I hang out at, could tell them to you for me. I was all about apologetics and I just assumed that if I had enough scripture and research, the results would come about. I was disappointed. It took more than just the written answers, to achieve change. I, like the author of this book, started to sense the need for something more. I remember standing there in the bookstore, the dilemma over method happening right as I looked over which book about the LDS I would purchase next. I wrote about this crisis of methodology here. Somewhere at the LDS forum I confessed to them "this tender new perspective" was taking root in me and I devoted myself to nurturing it, shutting out voices from the "traditional method" camp, for a time in my life.

Here is an example of the "traditional method" I too started out with. In this specific case I published this blog entry out of frustration because our discussion in a thread was getting overheated, and I pushed them beyond their limit. The moderator broke in and deleted my post from the discussion. It was gone! I was angry about it (though I did feel guilty), so I "published" it elsewhere out of defiance. My pride got in the way. But they worked with me to work the issue out.

The next post will be Rowe's explanation of a new method.


[1] I Love Mormons, by David L. Rowe, pp. 17-18. 2005, Baker Books.

Persecution Complex

Ongoing, unresolved strife between two groups can develop a persecution complex.

The most extreme version of the phenomena goes a little like this, in my observation: It is thought of as validation of your mission (persecution for the sake of truth/Jesus Christ) when anything is done or said at any time to be critical or to slow the achievement of that mission... no matter how appropriate those goals may or may not truly be.

The problem with an explanation of "persecution" when strife occurs, is that it does not make good provision for reason. Perspectives by those outside the group is outlawed; only insiders are privileged to have their reasonings received by its members for general contemplation.

The theological discourse of Christian persecution has a long and paradoxical legacy: indeed, Christianity itself is founded upon an archetype of religio-political persecution, the execution of Jesus by the Romans. Certainly, the earliest Christians routinely equated Christian identity with suffering persecution, as the gospels and letters in the New Testament amply attest: "Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake," Jesus says in the Sermon on the Mount, "for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are you when men revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account" (Matthew 5.10-11). Meanwhile, in the Gospel of John, Jesus warns his students with these words: "Remember the word that I said to you: 'A servant is not greater than his master.' If they persecuted me, they will persecute you" (John 15.20). Decades before these gospels were written, the itinerant preacher and missionary Paul wrote to the fledgling Christian community in Corinth: "For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities; for when I am weak, then I am strong" (2 Corinthians 12.10).

By the end of the second century, the north African church father Tertullian would link the Christian experience of persecution to the expansion of the church in what has over the centuries become a near-slogan of the Christian movement: "The blood of Christians is the seed [of the church]" (semen est sanguis Christianorum) (226-27). By the early fourth century, the tables had turned, and a writer like Lactantius could create a work like his On the Deaths of the Persecutors, in which he offers an almost gleeful portrait of the grotesque fates to which the persecutors had eventually succumbed. And by the post-Constantinian era of the fourth and fifth centuries, after Christianity had mastered the language of empire (Cameron), Christian imperial legislation effectively deployed the familiar image of formerly dominant pagans as the persecutors of Christians as a rationale for outlawing their religious practices (see Codex Theodosianus 16.10 [Pharr trans. 472-76]) while exuberant Christian monks justified anti-pagan acts of violence, such as breaking into the homes of prominent pagans and destroying the religious objects found therein, by recourse to the claim that they (the monks) were by definition without guilt since they acted as martyrs (witnesses) for Christ (Shenoute of Atripe; Gaddis).

[1]

What happens if the only ones allowed to reason over the propriety of a mission are the ones within the group? Any group has a customary pattern of thought, by definition. Therefore, it is blind to its own prejudices. That is why a group needs someone from the outside, someone who opposes them, to show them those prejudices (whatever those might be). In the case of an extreme persecution complex, that opportunity is never granted, and the group keeps making the same error after error until the damage done becomes so obvious that there is revolution from within the group itself. Or, the mission is abandoned out of disillusion and frustration from an apparent lack of progress.

And of course, the rift between the two groups grows larger.

Early on in the forming of new factions, it is important to deal swiftly to resolve bad emotions and language from the two sides.

For the sake of seeing the universal nature of the complex, here is a description of another group's pesecution complex... the LDS's:

As noted, the Mormons' identity as a "persecuted people" from early on in their history is very deeply felt. Its imprint leaves Mormons today thin-skinned, hypersensitive, and virtually expecting to be attacked. And let's be plain: the major body of attackers then and now has been perceived as Protestant Americans. So as we saw, we may typically expect a defensiveness that quickly throws walls up at even the slightest critical questioning of any aspect of their religion and culture. One classic manifestation of this complex is the insulated, fixed Mormon aversion to any form of what gets labeled "anti-Mormon literature"--books and pamphlets critical of their history or teachings or personal-journey stories of people who leave the LDS Church. Do any of this, or any joking or ridiculing, as you relate to a believing Mormon, and you can plan to lose an audience for the gospel right then and there. It will be seen as "one more attack."

[2]

They weren't the only ones, I had it too. I can testify of how blind I was to my errors, through believing I was suffering persecution. I still haven't delivered my mind from automatically assuming that every bad experience I have, means I am being persecuted for the sake of the truth. But you should have seen me when I first started hanging out with the LDS. As the extreme descriptions above illuminate, it was impossible for me to let the LDS who I was evangelizing, tell me how I was doing in evangelizing them. How I came across. How I was treating them. I feared the thought of listening and considering their reaction to the way I shared my message. I still don't understand what that fear was all about. But I'm glad I gave it up after a year or two... and I am even more glad that they gave me enough grace to stay long enough to have all those second chances. I eventually came around. Their goodness to me helped me wake from the trance of the persecution complex.



[1] Persecution Complexes, by Elizabeth A. Castelli, April 2008.

[2] I Love Mormons, by David L. Rowe, pg. 49. 2005, Baker Books.

Character Assassination

Do we like it when atheists tell us that they can't believe in Christ because the crusades killed a lot of people in His name?

Isn't it unpleasant when JWs and LDS tell us that the doctrine of the Trinity was decided as orthodoxy by majority opinion in a vote, instead of "the truth"?

We sin sometimes as Christians and we politely ask the watching world not to expect us to be perfect. We're still going to sin but righteousness comes by faith, anyway, not by what we do, which is quite reassuring and the strength of our very message!

Free grace just barely escaped from the clutches of error in evangelical Christianity. They take things too far to grant acceptance by actions instead of faith. They act as if there is no place for grace.

Do we need to be reminded of the mess made by Calvinism's license in character assassination?

This is a kind of trouble that we would be well without.

If free grace wants to lead the way in teaching others that we are made righteous by faith and that we have grace for when we make mistakes, then we will need to model it in the way we treat each other, first and foremost.

To say that we can judge a position as false by means of knowing of a few, specific sins of some of its members, is unfair and untrue. Outward behavior is not necessarily a reflection of an inward reality.

Let's concentrate: what is it that we are truly judged by? Disobedience to the law, or, not trusting in Jesus?

I believe focusing on the answer to this question will help us show our brothers how to find a clear conscience in this community.

"Spiritual Pornography"

I'm trying to remember where it was along the way that I learned this term.... Was it the JWs? The LDS? Ahh yes, it was the International Church of Christ. This denomination was the reason why I started learning the scriptures. Somewhere on my way out of this system, I learned the phrase, "spiritual pornography." It is the idea that any critical teachings from those outside the group, are to be avoided in every way. They should not even attempt to be understood. Just throw it in the trash, literally, and don't even give a chance to what the other side is saying.

I think this serves as a powerful lesson even though the ICOC example is of course, extreme. I don't think it's a stretch to pull some principles from this phenomena, of marking and labeling outsiders. What are the people inside the group being told about those outside the group? That they don't communicate anything worthwhile? That what they point out is unthinkable? Are they being told that those on the outside are liars, unreliable, shape-shifters, biased, and bent on pillage and destruction?

I always thought that if I truly had the truth, then I am confident and free to review the opinions of anyone's critical suggestions. After all, if I am right, then no matter what I read, my beliefs will always shine bright in their presence. So what is there to fear? There is nothing the other side can really do to harm my message. Now if I was unsure that I had the truth, then I would indeed worry about the damage those on the outside could do to stop my message. It becomes clear how a man truly thinks about his religion when you observe the way in which he shares it.

contending as one man for the faith of the gospel without being frightened in any way by those who oppose you. This is a sign to them that they will be destroyed, but that you will be saved—and that by God.

philippians 1:27-28

Indeed, for me as I became more and more confident that I was "right," communication with those on the outside became more and more important to me. God was showing me that I was in a position to minister. Who else can help those on the outside to deal with my message, more than I? As I have said in times passed, I am an absolutist who behaves like a relativist. More or less, you get the point. I want utilize respect and listening skills so that there is real communication and compassion to help the outsider to feel free to become an insider.

The more negative labeling I do of the other side, warranted or not, the more obstacle I build from letting them become more like me.

In conclusion, there is double the reason to not speak poorly of the outsiders, those who oppose your message. One, because it creates an obstacle in the ministry of recovering them to orthodoxy, and two, it invalidates the unspoken testimony that you truly have figured out what is right.

And, of course, those labels usually are not warranted, once you get to know what they are really saying and what they are really thinking. That's just the way perceptions work.

Is this important?

I have been critical of the current methodology in proselytizing among those who are like me -- evangelicals. Is the criticism overdone? I don't know. I can admit that I have tended to label it as everyone's problem, but I am sure there are many who do it right. I myself am most known for doing it wrong. I've made a lot of mistakes. From those experiences, I want to do what I can to help those who are most like me in avoiding the same.

Let me ask you: how do you proselytize groups such as the LDS or Jehovah's Witnesses?

Is your answer "Oh; the LDS? Well, they have a unique set of difficulties and we really shouldn't get involved."

That's one answer I hear often. The other? To go and tell them what we know is the truth. A good description of the problems arising from usual methodologies can be found at Jeff Lindsay's blogsite in the post titled "How Can Anyone be so Stupid?", which was the recent topic of a thread at a LDS forum.

Feel free to read along if you're interested.

Comments on Community

Last Sunday was the second of four Sunday morning service sermons given by an interim pastor, Dr. Stratos. This is come about, you might find it big news to learn, because our pastor of seven years was called to shepherd another congregation in Phoenix, Arizona and left us mid-August.

Dr. Stratos made a comment on how the rise of fundamentalist Christianity, and its culture of pointing to the Word of God for conduct in life, while good, has unfortunately created arbitrary lines in the sand between us and everyone else who doesn't live like we do. It's a discomfort which he said needed to be abolished in our hearts before God could use us to love on others not only within our church but especially outside of it, and win people to Christ. And I firmly agree.

Bonhoeffer describes in the previous post's excerpts that Christian fellowship is fashioned by God and held together by the authority of the Word. But I also think there is equal value to apply his writings to community of any kind where we evangelicals are bound with those that (may or) may not be saved.

As I can hear at this moment in my mind Stratos reminding us in his sermon, were not the homeless and criminals and more, created in the image of God? Just like anyone, they are waiting for someone to come and be Jesus to them. To love on them, and show them Jesus, in us. That is how they will come to know and believe in Him.

Here is what Bonhoeffer said:

A community which cannot bear and cannot survive such a crisis, which insists upon keeping its illusion when it should be shattererd, permanently loses in that moment the promise of Christian community. He who loves his dream of a community more than the Christian community itself becomes a destroyer of the latter, even though his personal intentions may be ever so honest and earnest and sacrificial.

And the same is true for communities in the general manner. If we cannot bear the people who are markedly different than us, then how believable is it that Jesus does?

I've spent four and a half years being in community with a group of LDS people. Unfortunately, I have to report that when I began I was the kind of Christian who could not tolerate differences, as Bonhoeffer says I was one who brought "with him a very definite idea of what Christian life together should be and to try to realize it." I had a specific way of reading and believing upon the scriptures and history which they would be best to adhere no matter how inconsequential the matter. I experienced great disillusionment as well, when despite all my careful efforts and explanations, no one ever chose to believe as I had taught was necessary. I was proud and one would think that I could not have made any friends.

But the exact opposite took place. They were patient, forgiving, caring, and always listening even if rarely budging. This really amazed me, and revolutionized my approach as I was convicted of how judgmental of them, of God, and therefore of myself I had been. I learned what community should be, what it is as God intended, what it is under grace, what it is as one of God's fellow children, from them. I experienced the very grace I preached, from those I imposed upon.

I do not know how it came that I was blessed to be caught up with them. I do know, though, that it is all to someone else's credit and not mine.

I am all the more strengthened in gladness of our gospel of grace. If they and I cannot bear the weaknesses in one another, how are we to believe that Jesus does??

"Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for the brethren to dwell together in unity."

Some interesting connections??

Connection One:
This may seem silly, but it possibly might be true....

David L. Rowe wrote a book called "I Love Mormons" which I have been quoting frequently from lately. I suppose the hangups of us evangelizing the LDS are the same no matter if it is in the realm of cyberspace or in real life like Happy Valley. So then maybe it is small of me to think this way, but, when Rowe writes characteristically about the interactions between LDS and evangelicals, it feels like he is speaking directly for the specific events and threads that have taken place at the LDS forum. What's to think he hasn't been there anyway, I asked myself? How many LDS forums are there, after all? He does mention the official LDS website, so he has looked around on the internet for at least some kinds of information. Maybe he sees the need for his message to reach the online evangelicals more than anyone else, because we don't have flesh and blood and tones of voice, and things get so much more ugly than if we were able to see one another in a conversation.

In his book, there were not too many times where Rowe mentioned specific examples of *better* ways to share the gospel instead of the bible bash. But here is what he says in one of those few:

"Briefly for now, let's say by way of example it may mean we begin to converse with our LDS friends much more (and more characteristically) by telling them about a recent answer to prayer or a stunning act of God we've experienced or a gospel-like image from a film than by reciting a bible verse or sharing a great doctrinal "insight" we got in last Sunday's sermon." (pg 124)

Okay, for those of you who have been reading my blog from the beginning, can you recognize anything I've done in those examples???

Hahahahahha.

Yes, I know this might be arrogant of me. But when it comes to the internet what permanent easily accessible record can there be of an evangelical sharing a gospel-like image from a film? What are the chances?

Visit 2005 May 28th's blog entry, to see the candidate I am thinking about.

It even has a comment from a friendly LDS associate attached, whereas not many other entires get such attention with comments.

His book was published sometime in 2005.

The chances?? I know, I know, dumb of me; but there you are.

Connection Two:
Before I even understood that I was a Christian, Kathleen Fast was there for me. She was a missionary to my college campus when I moved out of my parent's home. Almost immediately as I got tempted with the diverse choices of campus living, I also had much opportunity to ask all my questions about God. Kathleen was specifically moved to minister to the fifty women living in our university co-op. I learned to confide in her, and she challenged me out of the Word of God to think twice about the decisions before me. Over three years she was there for me, like the sister and the mother that were very much emotionally removed from me. When I told her that I had found someone I wanted to marry, she had known Ben longer than she had known me, and told me that he was a wonderful man to commit my life to.

A few years later, last spring, I looked in my church bulletin and the speaker for the women's retreat was none other than Kathleen. After she gave her talks during the retreat we would hang out and picked up right where we left off. It was neat to reconnect with her.

I also went on that mission trip with Kathleen and our church at the time to Salt Lake City, getting our feet wet evangelizing the LDS.

I recognized the name "Craig L. Blomberg" when I saw it on the cover of the book that came in the mail for me three days ago. He is a professor at Denver Seminary. He was Kathleen's mentor and teacher for her graduate studies, Kathleen having graduated from Denver.

Blomberg co-authored the book "How Wide the Divide: A Mormon and an Evangelical in Conversation," which I have also been quoting from recently.

Perhaps God sowed a spiritual seed from the tree of Blomberg into my life.

http://kathleenfast.com

Why do we bible-bash?

One of several reasons why traditional Christians "bible-bash" (a LDS term meaning us using the bible to degrade their faith and therefore, themselves), which may or may not apply to any of us on an individual basis:

"Some traditional Christians simply don't have much romance with God going on in their lives, and therefore they have little or nothing to say about their feelings and experience. And they may even, beneath it all, be rather afraid, perhaps even ashamed, to admit there's no real fire in their souls. Instead of rekindling that fire, it may seem a lot safer to stay on the level of memorized verses and intellectualized arguments. In short, it's easier to become a "Bible answer man" than a Bible based man, easier to be correct than contrite, easier to master content than character, easier to be informed about Christ than formed by Christ. ... I've always loved what Thomas a Kempis says in 'The Imitation of Christ:' "I would rather feel contrition than know how to define it.""

-- "I Love Mormons" by David L. Rowe

Indeed, I saw that same conflict in me beginning shortly after I joined a LDS forum community! Discussion forum participation sweeps me away, so that by practice if not by premise, I am undividedly honing my skill to talk about what I think I know. If knowledge is comfortable to a man, then forums are a nice place to drift. There was little cause to focus on the more challenging things of being a follower of Christ. The only way I could counterbalance that tendency was through those long periods of being unconnected to the internet, and also my effort at blogging to focus on where I was with God for my own sake.

Rowe seems to perceive that same weakness in the evangelical (traditional Christian) mindset that I identified while at that forum of which I labeled "The Legalism of Belief:"

"A long and practiced legacy of traditional Christian church culture has cultivated an aversion to romantic orientation in dealing with gospel truth. This is our entrenched culture, especially we Western Protestants, tend to be oriented toward tightly rational, verbally textual statements as the normal way of conveying truth about spiritual things. We are more at home with words and linear arguments than with images and experiences.... This is especially true for the part of "we" who are theologically educated in the West, and often it filters down from the church leaders so educated. We've been trained to deal more on the cognitive level than the affected level.

"Now, the real problem here may not be our training so much as our assumption, usually unquestioned and unexamined, that this is indeed "the *normal* way of knowing and conveying truth" for everybody. Perhaps it doesn't even occur to us that our Mormon friends may not find this mode of operating normal at all! For my first several years of living in the Salt Lake City area, it certainly did not occur to me. As a result, I did what many of us do: I treated my LDS friends as two-dimensional information processors. I figured that if I just blathered away at them with enough well-argued Bible verses, they would automatically get enlightened, fall to their knees, and repent. When neither their minds nor their knees seemed to comply, I found myself roundly disillusioned, again and again."

-- "I Love Mormons" by David L. Rowe

We "resounding gongs" described in 1 cor 13 need to admit that it's not enough to just know what is right.

my deleted post

Okay.

Quote:
The Book of Mormon is more important to us than the bible, and here is why.

Thank you.

Quote:
The Book of Mormon, in contrast, was written specifically for our day.

You mean to say human nature has changed in 5000 years? Even the theory of human evolution does not support such a stance. The book of mormon was penned in the times of ancient history. How then can you consider it modern? In fact every other aspect of your church in their scriptures and writings are indeed modern with exception of the BoM. As far as I understand it. Maybe what you *meant* above is, "The Latter Day Saint Church, in contrast, is meant for modern worship of Christ."

Do you mean to say that actual historical/biblical accounts, like, David sinning with Bathsheba, is anything less applicable to believers today? Exactly what about the bible makes it not just as helpful for today's readers as it was when it was written the first time? Can you think of anything--I can't.

Quote:
Mormon, who compiled most of the Book of Mormon, stipulates in Mormon 5:12-15 that these things are written and hid up that they may come forth in the Lords own due time, to convince the Jews and the remnant of the Lamanites that Jesus is the Christ.

Are you trying to say that the bible is not as effective or incapable of convincing the Jews or any other group that Jesus is the Christ? I am not trying to imply that the Book of Mormon is not able to convince the same thing. It may very well be another testament of Jesus as you say. But is it better as you claim above, in terms of converting and revealing Jesus? I'm just asking what you think of the bible's abilities. Just another thought: there are more bibles in the world than BoMs, and more Christians in the world than LDS.

I commend your trust in the BoM. I wonder though, does such a strong stance as you are taking above, make it therefore wrong for you to reach out and investigate a perspective that is solely biblical like Ana's or mine as Ana has asked you? Especially since the bible is indeed the word of God, as you believe and preach to all.